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TOPIC: Secret Wars 2015

Secret Wars 2015 11 months 3 weeks ago #46468

  • jkthemac
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It strikes me, now that some more of the characters from Marvel's 'New Universe' are creeping into the MU, which is all related to Hickman's use of The White Event and the reintroduction of concepts like Star Brand etc. It may be worth adding a set of 'New Universe' reading lists.

Keep an eye out for a new thread with these included.
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 2 weeks ago #46484

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That's what's left. Not much of the stuff seems to have been necessary, at this point. The Thors stuff, possibly. Maybe the Infinity Gauntlet/Nova story (but that seems unlikely). Maybe A-Force (loved the art in that one). The Siege stuff I suspect is not exactly critical, but will probably be nice to have that backstory.

(BTW, I tried to link to the relevant info for each of those issues on comicvine, but the url block didn't allow the post to submit)
Last Edit: 11 months 2 weeks ago by boshuda.
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 2 weeks ago #46491

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I'm done. Just finished the Silver Surfer book. I'm glad that's coming back with Dawn Greenwood. That could make an awesome TV show...

The whole event was fun. I'm glad I waited to read it when it was finished. I'm a little sad they basically jumped through all of these hoops because (I suspect) they want to make it more politically correct, and because writers want to retcon a cell phone into Peter Parker's pocket when he saved Uncle Ben.
Last Edit: 11 months 2 weeks ago by boshuda.
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 2 weeks ago #46495

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Well I did warn you a lot of it is not worth reading together. I hope your personal journey through it wasn't too abbreviated because it is easy to miss the wood for the trees. A whole lot of the tie-ins are just not worth reading until after you have read the main body of the event.

As to theories of why this all happened I am pretty sure it was nothing to do with political correctness. We can discuss this here or in another forum if you want, but I believe the primary reason is the same instinct that drives DC to reset every now and again. The disentangling of continuity, an instinct to open up and not close down the idea space for writers. I believe Hickman sold Marvel on a Crisis they could get behind. He is on record as saying he wasn't really a big Marvel reader and all his big ideas for comics were DC related. There are some very interesting podcast interviews out there if you are interested in listening to his perspective, although nothing that clearly lays out what the plan was you can get a glimpse at the background to this.

On first read this all may feel like it wasn't a reboot. Many even read it and insisted a reset button was thrown at the end. This is provably untrue given the way the new universe is going, but the shake-out is still in progress.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole on what this all means you are welcome to join us over in the continually resurrecting Secret Wars thread over on the CBR forums. We do get a little deep, but we are just as likely to discuss overall impressions if that is what you want to get into.

The further reading list, in case you want to follow the deep plot, is Ultimates, and to a lesser extent All New Avengers. A large number of other stories have also been impacted in big ways, but that is only now being fully explored because Marvel started In Media Res eight months later. Partly to allow writers to get into their stride without having to address the huge thing that just happened, and partly to give the editors time to work out what they wanted to do next.
Last Edit: 11 months 2 weeks ago by jkthemac.
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 2 weeks ago #46496

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boshuda wrote:
I'm done. Just finished the Silver Surfer book. I'm glad that's coming back with Dawn Greenwood. That could make an awesome TV show...
Yes, where have we seen that before. ;)
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 2 weeks ago #46500

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I actually liked the story, despite the reboot. I don't understand how people could say the reboot was a last minute thing. I suppose I can grant that they allowed the entire Secret Wars arc to be done because they'd made such a mess of the universe leading up to that point, allowing many of the top-tier characters to be removed from play in one form or another and the absolute mess that was the two-worlds event needing an actual ending.

I say I think it was to make things more politically correct because basically they can now take a bunch of characters who were white males and remake them as they see fit to pacify the twitter crowd without forcing it. The horrible way they made "Nick Fury" a black guy to match the movies, de-super-soldiering Steve Rogers to give his shield to a black guy, depowering Thor down to Odin-Son to put a woman in his place, etc. It was getting to be a bit much. But, if you view the Thor stuff as leading to being The Thors it becomes less forced. I don't think it was necessary. Kamala Kahn was a great new character. Robby Reyes was a great Ghost 'Rider' (although he should've been a Ghost Driver IMHO), I even liked the new Kid Nova and I generally dislike when they make kids into heroes. However, I don't know how many liberties were taken with that type of thing yet.

I also don't have a problem with continuity issues. Comic readers are smart enough to recognize comics have been written over decades by hundreds of writers with input from thousands of people. Editors often miss things and allow contradictions. It's fine. As long as the current writer owns their interpretation it becomes the new interpretation. I don't even have a problem with the aging issue that seems to bug a lot of people. Yes, Spider-Man has been published for, what, fifty years? and so he should be in a nursing home, not somewhere in his late-twenties/early-thirties. But that's not how fiction works. Deal with it. I do have a problem when they retell stories and try to set them as though they happened yesterday instead of when they did. So now I can just chalk it up to an oversight on Reed's part.

I'll join you on CBR. Nobody else here is commenting anyway, lol. I don't even know if anyone likes my reading list.
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Secret Wars 2015 11 months 5 days ago #46544

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I think more people check these reading lists than comment or like.
I have had crippling internet issues for a week or two now and extending into the future, so I have not been checking forums much.

You would be surprised how many people seem to be totally obsessed with continuity and don't even seem to recognise it is a game of pick and mix. Thor is a case in point, where Aaron is clearly a real student of continuity, working-in even retconned ideas through analogy and reference, and yet the majority of forum commenters just want to take shots at him for not doing things exactly the way they want. Sometimes I despair with comic fans. Unable to read sub-text, oblivious to how Marvel Editorial really operate, and totally blinkered when it comes to what comics should contain.

You can tell I haven't been able to rant for a while.

I have found the political correct claims quite miss-aimed. In general, you can tell by the way certain people comment on these books that they haven't actually taken much time to investigate what the books are about or why they have taken the approach that they have. Every one of these examples can easily fall into the 'this one is valid but those others are just PC books' if you are so inclined. In general I applaud Marvel for giving these ideas a go, but you can clearly tell from the approach and execution, that none of the books were born from editorial edict. More an expressed openness to ideas that can increase their representation. Each one has a writer's vision stamped on it, with a clear idea what they want to say and how they want to present it.

Ironically the one comic that can clearly be pin-pointed as an editorial project that brought in the writer and artist later on is Ms. Marvel, which to me suggests a creatively minded editorial team, unafraid to take risks.
Last Edit: 11 months 5 days ago by jkthemac.
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Secret Wars 2015 10 months 4 weeks ago #46564

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Your point about PC is well-taken. I stopped looking into how the sausage is made. It just seemed like they had sidelined or changed a number of core characters at the same time the twitter noise was increasing.

I'm about a year behind the current stuff. I'm in September of 2015 released date. So I'm not quite sure what's happened in the interim.
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Secret Wars 2015 10 months 1 week ago #46637

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This recent contribution to the CBR forums seems relevant here. A visual guide to Hickman's various runs:

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